| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ysmn
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 2914
Location: Terris
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Fully agree with bomberman's points. The trouble with us is we buy developer's story then we try to make excuses for developer.
Developer also mostly launching projects without being really sure themselves about viability as a functional built environment where their customers. Then they spin their gung ho sales talk until they even start to believe their own propositions.
Now how do we go about to create thriving work and living spaces that are viable? That is the question that must be addressed by every developer, but you won't find the answer here.
_________________
Kind regards, ysmn |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
yakyong
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 123
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nothing 100% sure in this world, every thing will only be analysed base on knowhow and whatever INFOMATIONS in the CURRENT MARKET. Result in PROBABILITY. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
linustw
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 1490
Location: Klang Valley
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bomberman wrote: |
I don't think mastering the art of highrise is an issue, they are many architect firms in malaysia experience enough to provide them service. Basically this is whether they want to squeeze every single square feet into $ and cent or they are willing to let go some profit to provide a better design. some forumer wondering why YTL willing to let go a 30 over acre prime land in Sentul as a private park, that is the message i try to convey. |
basically SP failed to equal the marketability and livability of SetiaWalk.
The soft lauch figures said it loud and clear.
On the private park by YTL.......it's not contractual to the purchase of properties that the park will be permanent. Beside, we dun know if this is a requirement by DBKL to keep the density low for Sentual YTL. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trojan
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 198
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Curious to know, what actually attract you to buy a 400+k for a unit of condo/apt for own-stay, the same amount will allow you to own a 2-storey landed house? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ysmn
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 2914
Location: Terris
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yakyong wrote: | | Nothing 100% sure in this world, every thing will only be analysed base on knowhow and whatever INFOMATIONS in the CURRENT MARKET. Result in PROBABILITY. |
The question before us is did SP Setia really base their scheme on the knowhow and information available to them, or did they just base on some knowhow and information, and overspeculated themselves?
_________________
Kind regards, ysmn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ysmn
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 2914
Location: Terris
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yakyong wrote: | | Nothing 100% sure in this world, every thing will only be analysed base on knowhow and whatever INFOMATIONS in the CURRENT MARKET. Result in PROBABILITY. |
The question before us is did SP Setia really base their scheme on the knowhow and information available to them, or did they just base on some knowhow and information, and overspeculated themselves?
_________________
Kind regards, ysmn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
serisky
Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 87
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| trojan wrote: | | Curious to know, what actually attract you to buy a 400+k for a unit of condo/apt for own-stay, the same amount will allow you to own a 2-storey landed house? |
good to see we have a very healthy discussion here. 400++ for a service apt in SetiaWalk? quite expensive? I think D'Kiara, D'Palma, Saraka are much much cheaper than this condo. Worth to buy? time will prove it. So far I can see yakyong is the diehard defender for this project? Any reason behind that? Are you SP Setia follower? Staff? Marketing Agent? 
I think with that amount of money, I will buy a landed house in Wawasan 3 or 4... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ysmn
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 2914
Location: Terris
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
not justified. Time may proof that 400k is nominally justified. But when you look at opportunity costs it still sucks as an investment. Perhaps some people are about to lose their jobs on this project.
_________________
Kind regards, ysmn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bomberman
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 105
Location: KL
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Anyone heard of a development name Seremban Forest Height?? Do you know who is the developer behind this Development? Is the Mont Kiara "Daiko" Sunrise!!! If you browse thru Sunrise homepage, you can't find this project in their list of completed project because they tend to forget the sick history. What i am trying to say is "branded" doesn't mean "promise" even though most company trying to relate it as.A good example will be the recent melamine incident, poisonous milk were manufactured by the award winning big boys in the China Market, they are branded!! Every new development has it own factors,a wise investor will weight the pros and cons base on logical thinking and calculation but not base on sentiment. "Brand" only give an impression of "higher chances of making it a success" but not guarantee of success", if you blindly believe in "brand", if you are not lucky, you may end up buying a "poisonous property" that make suck up your hard earn money!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bomberman
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 105
Location: KL
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| linustw wrote: | | bomberman wrote: |
I don't think mastering the art of highrise is an issue, they are many architect firms in malaysia experience enough to provide them service. Basically this is whether they want to squeeze every single square feet into $ and cent or they are willing to let go some profit to provide a better design. some forumer wondering why YTL willing to let go a 30 over acre prime land in Sentul as a private park, that is the message i try to convey. |
basically SP failed to equal the marketability and livability of SetiaWalk.
The soft lauch figures said it loud and clear.
On the private park by YTL.......it's not contractual to the purchase of properties that the park will be permanent. Beside, we dun know if this is a requirement by DBKL to keep the density low for Sentual YTL. |
I am not sure about DBKL, but for Selangor, MBSA required minimum 10% of the whole development reserve as usable green area. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ysmn
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 2914
Location: Terris
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
that was another intelligent post from bomberman except that this is under mpsj not mbsa. i have projects in all 9 municipal coumcils in Selangor and no two have entirely identical requirements. Got to be careful about generalisations.
_________________
Kind regards, ysmn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bomberman
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 105
Location: KL
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ysmn wrote: | | that was another intelligent post from bomberman except that this is under mpsj not mbsa. i have projects in all 9 municipal coumcils in Selangor and no two have entirely identical requirements. Got to be careful about generalisations. |
Thanks for your correction, at the moment i only involve in MBSA territory. Wow, your company must be one of the major player in the market and have been in the market for very long time. Some developer is big but localize at certain area.....Ummm.... Sunway is one that quite well spread... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ysmn
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 2914
Location: Terris
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dear Bomberman, Please don't speculate who we are. We are small and private below the publicity radar. We are not developers but investors and advisors. You won't be able to identify us.
_________________
Kind regards, ysmn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yakyong
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 123
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| trojan wrote: | | Curious to know, what actually attract you to buy a 400+k for a unit of condo/apt for own-stay, the same amount will allow you to own a 2-storey landed house? |
My opinions, those buying a > 300K condo to stay
1 looking for better security but with limited budget to buy or without
better gated landed in their preference location.
2 Enjoy some facilities, concepts and view
3 Oversea frequently
4 Small family (easy to manage) and having a nice car (prevent hi-jack
when home and security will take care of it). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yakyong
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 123
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ysmn wrote: | | yakyong wrote: | | Nothing 100% sure in this world, every thing will only be analysed base on knowhow and whatever INFOMATIONS in the CURRENT MARKET. Result in PROBABILITY. |
The question before us is did SP Setia really base their scheme on the knowhow and information available to them, or did they just base on some knowhow and information, and overspeculated themselves? |
I believe they have done their analysis but price set at wrong timing. If price set after finance crisis............................. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ysmn
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 2914
Location: Terris
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
they positioned the project from a lifestyle angle, not from an investment angle.
realising the rising cost trend, they needed to hike the price to make it viable. Then they had no choice but to push the lifestyle angle to try sell it.
Unfortunately the price is not sustainable given the puchong market.
So when the credit crunch happened because the banks have been selling an oversupply of credit to unsustainable consumer expenses, the house of cards cracked.
As a matter of interest the project has been slapped a stop worh order due to cracks.
The cardinal mistake of the developer is that they selfishly thought of only their own profits without caring if it would benefit their buyers from an investment standpoint.
The second big mistake is that they forgot that the construction, property, and financial markets eventhough interlinked are essentially disparate.
This happened because they refused to pay for the research that was vital to an undertaking of this nature.
But for me if a project fails the investment test, i will not consider other arguments.
Fortunately for developers, most ppl are not like me.
Fortunately for me, most ppl are not like me.
_________________
Kind regards, ysmn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yakyong
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 123
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| serisky wrote: | | trojan wrote: | | Curious to know, what actually attract you to buy a 400+k for a unit of condo/apt for own-stay, the same amount will allow you to own a 2-storey landed house? |
good to see we have a very healthy discussion here. 400++ for a service apt in SetiaWalk? quite expensive? I think D'Kiara, D'Palma, Saraka are much much cheaper than this condo. Worth to buy? time will prove it. So far I can see yakyong is the diehard defender for this project? Any reason behind that? Are you SP Setia follower? Staff? Marketing Agent?
I think with that amount of money, I will buy a landed house in Wawasan 3 or 4... |
I just one of the purchaser. booked a type A unit. And agree with you, my first intention is to get a landed (better value appreciation from business of view) in Bandar Puteri because my business is focus at Puchong, Bangi and Shah Alam. But after viewed the finishing, design and security. Decided to change my options. Security is my first concern because Puchong is not safe from criminal. My workshop and office in Bandar Puteri and I have bad experence on it. In fact, Puchong has no many options for better lifestyle living. Until SW had porposed something difference in this area. For me, nothing is more important than my family. Wanna them to live peacefully. And I am not diehard defender on this project, just to give my views on why booking the units, and I strongly believe Puchong will be another upcoming area. I am the one work in Puchong for 5 years and feel it changed. And Puchong ppls like Kepong ppls, die-die wanna to stay in Puchong area (If got choice). Simple like that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yakyong
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 123
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
No one can predict and 100% analysed the market situation, even corporate like Lehman Brothers, AIG and etc..............
and a good project should develope something difference and added value and not competing with others in the exisiting market. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ysmn
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 2914
Location: Terris
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yakyong,your points for buying sw are excellent and clear and you have the correct reasons for buying.
My only hope is that due to sps miscalcukations the innocent buyers do not suffer delays and quality.
I also hope sps does not defer this project and return your deposits like some developers have done.
_________________
Kind regards, ysmn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
linustw
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 1490
Location: Klang Valley
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yakyong, if die die also wanna stay in Puchong, wonder why you wouldn't consider LakeEdge or Amansari? Because leasehold status?
To me, freehold status for commercial building is quite meaningless.
Back to Type A, which facing that you choose? West or East and why? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yakyong
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 123
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| linustw wrote: | Yakyong, if die die also wanna stay in Puchong, wonder why you wouldn't consider LakeEdge or Amansari? Because leasehold status?
To me, freehold status for commercial building is quite meaningless.
Back to Type A, which facing that you choose? West or East and why? |
I am not going to consider any other projects beyond BP and PBP teritories in Puchong. No doubt Lake Edge might offer something to me but it is not in the location. And I like the concepts and door step that proposed by SW (assume SP able to complete as planned and believe they won't let it fail bcoz they have bigger project in Setia City, Eco park and Johor). I choosed type A (with 3 car park) on 22nd floor facing east (morning sun). For me, it is good deal for those booked before price increased. I paid only RM5000 so far and get RM25000 on paper value appreciation for my unit. SP sold 10% of units before and you will surprise that they are able to sell another 10% unit + 1 penthouse after price incresed and finance crisis.
And bear in mind, all units sold without proper catelog , show unit and development license. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bomberman
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 105
Location: KL
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ysmn wrote: | Yakyong,your points for buying sw are excellent and clear and you have the correct reasons for buying.
My only hope is that due to sps miscalcukations the innocent buyers do not suffer delays and quality.
I also hope sps does not defer this project and return your deposits like some developers have done. |
I think SP Setia already feel the pain, that is why they delay the launching date from September to next year. The most ideal case that they hope for is selling more units before officially launch to advertise it as "our unit selling like hot cake, we manage to sell of 70% before launching" but i am doubt this miracle will happen . The next thing they going to do is "freebies worth 20k for early bird", then start giving kitchen cabinet and air con, is hard to reduce price at this moment, they don't want to admit their pricing mistake. If they still can't achieve 60% sales, probably they will return deposits or built only one block instead of 3.
Dear ysmn, sorry for my curiosity. I don't really mean to speculate, i have the understanding. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bomberman
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 105
Location: KL
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yakyong wrote: | | linustw wrote: | Yakyong, if die die also wanna stay in Puchong, wonder why you wouldn't consider LakeEdge or Amansari? Because leasehold status?
To me, freehold status for commercial building is quite meaningless.
Back to Type A, which facing that you choose? West or East and why? |
I am not going to consider any other projects beyond BP and PBP teritories in Puchong. No doubt Lake Edge might offer something to me but it is not in the location. And I like the concepts and door step that proposed by SW (assume SP able to complete as planned and believe they won't let it fail bcoz they have bigger project in Setia City, Eco park and Johor). I choosed type A (with 3 car park) on 22nd floor facing east (morning sun). For me, it is good deal for those booked before price increased. I paid only RM5000 so far and get RM25000 on paper value appreciation for my unit. SP sold 10% of units before and you will surprise that they are able to sell another 10% unit + 1 penthouse after price incresed and finance crisis.
And bear in mind, all units sold without proper catelog , show unit and development license. |
Yakyong, no wonder you are not worried about "dark room" because yours is a corner unit without "dark room".sad to say that this is the only layout that comfortable for staying. As for investor, the holding power must be strong enough to hold it till LRT come in at the opposite plot, only then you may enjoy some appreciation. But you will never know when LRT is coming. one more question that i am interested to find out. Do you think commercial property at Puchong along LDP is over supply? they are a few more shops development in progress at the moment, Don't you think they will be excessive supply in the coming future? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yakyong
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 123
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="bomberman"][quote="yakyong"] | linustw wrote: |
Yakyong, no wonder you are not worried about "dark room" because yours is a corner unit without "dark room".sad to say that this is the only layout that comfortable for staying. As for investor, the holding power must be strong enough to hold it till LRT come in at the opposite plot, only then you may enjoy some appreciation. But you will never know when LRT is coming. one more question that i am interested to find out. Do you think commercial property at Puchong along LDP is over supply? they are a few more shops development in progress at the moment, Don't you think they will be excessive supply in the coming future? |
Your question same like asking condo are over supply at KLCC and Mont Kiara or not? I don't think we can get the answer here. But at least before us, Tesco, Jaya Jusco, Giant, Public bank, Citibank, Maybank, IOI, SP and etc had done their reserch, analysis and build their empire in Puchong along LDP. I Believe commersial activities and population will increase dramatically at this area. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ysmn
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 2914
Location: Terris
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yakyong your questions are relevant.
I will be very careful about jln puchong. You will notice that not all properties along it do well. I think the reason is very tricky feng shui due to the relation of each site to the compass as well as the effect of the large forest reserve and the great klang river. In my opinion sps had the opportunity to make the most of this but failed and therefore the developer, buyers and occupants of sw as currently planned will face tremendous problems.
Secondly puchong is growing as a spillover from pj. However with the expiry of leases in pj, and its redevelopment potential, puchong may return to its outpost position.
the values of rents and prices in the klcc area is falling by the week and the big bullshitter four seasons has stopped work and are planning their next storyline.
Mont kiara meanwhile due to its continuing sprawl has been moving gradually from exclusive to cheap. Their rents are also not too great.
In fact olympia and merril lynch have called off their project at sri hartamas.
As it is timing is as important in property as it is for all investments and i would caution investors not to assume that even the biggest and most established developers always get it right, similar to the biggest and most established financial experts' recent Global fuck-up.
_________________
Kind regards, ysmn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
